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--- Topic for #backchannel set by olleolleolle at Fri Apr 27 04:59:49
 "It'd be bad if Java died and I had to go to C++ or some other weird 
creature"
 A: "As long as there's a JVM Java will live."
 "We'll use Ruby or Python for apps."
 are you talking
 ?
 in an hour!
 o
 i will b asleep then
 See you another day, I'll save this TRANSCRIPT.
 ill stay logged in
 Superlicious.
 my index finger hurts from the turbo button in Burnout Revenge
 RSI
 lawsuits
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 Ah, TextMate. :)
 its worth paying for though
 Oh yes.
 anyone tried Coda?
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 Gave it a quick look. Too limited for me.
 Looks pretty though.
 yea same here
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 probably nice if u manage alot of static html sites
 And do nothing else. ;)
 Nice thing about the good text editor + goof ftp client setup is that you can 
use it for anything.
 *good
 what are you discussing?
 Coda
 ok
 http://www.panic.com/coda/
 webdev. app from panic, who made Transmit
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 daring fireball has a writeup about it
 http://daringfireball.net/2007/04/coda
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 Anyone listening to the guest lecture here ?
 yea
 surely
 someone at the office uses coda, seems nice enough
 also check out http://script.aculo.us/
 for whiz-bang stuff with js
 no built-in version control though, but a terminal.. so it is enough
 (Off Topic) After the lecture, please visit this page: 
http://people.dsv.su.se/~tobias/dypl.cgi?QuestionsAndCommentsToTheCourseCouncil
 is olle making a good impression on you guys? :P
 yea
 cool
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 weeeeee
 This is an excellent idea, btw.
 I agree.
 okay... someone raise a hand and ask olle a hard question...
 It's the way it should be !
 like.. the ruby interpreter is SLOW!
 do something about it!
 albert_ramstedt: It's faster than most JavaScript interpreters. :)
 hehe
 why don't you ask him?
 also check out www.onelinr.com, a backchannel app in rails developed by a 
kth-student, eric wahlforss
 im not at the lecture :P
 oh =)))
 check out trig.com a ror app developed by us!
 Are lecture backchannel chats common at DSV?
 not rly
 nope
 No
 first time i now about , but i am a kth student
 trig... are  you the guys do did Archipelago?
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 Fun but it's not that good for concentration tho :P
 I've tried to get on-the-fly commenting on the wiki going, but it is only me 
that comments, basically
 CPAN that PPM uses
 Bah, gems are nicer.
 Has Python got anything similar?
 Every PERL programmer uses CPAN. 
 python has eggs
 Check out cheeseshop
 evn, well.. martin who worked for us did
 What about dependencies? Are they handled like with gems?
 In cheeseshop, that is.
 Or with eggs.
 Ask Olle now
 That's a good point.
 albert_ramstedt: ah... did you never deploy it?
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 evn: no, we are not using it for trig.. we tried to integrate it with 
small part of the app, but it was too alpha
 evn: how did you hear about archipelago?
 ok so it was more his personal project than something driven by a business need
 yes
 browsing rubyforge
 oh cool
 I live and die by Firebug. :)
 does development continue on archipelago? or not so much
 Also, Web Developer Toolbar is handy to have.
 Some info on dependencies in eggs: 
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs#declaring-dependencies
 evn: dunno. I can ask him to go here and answer your questions :P
 tobias_: Thanks!
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 hello
 albert directed me here
 yes, archipelago is in development
 oh that was fast
 cool
 (i was asking)
 but since it is my personal pet, i afford (so far, anyway) to be very very 
perfectionistic
 NP
 therefore, i am currently working (or thinking, anyway, or at least building up 
courage to work on) on the erasure code solution
 tobias_: See? This is why TM kicks Emacs' ass. :P
 erasure?
 Gedit: http://www.gnome.org/projects/gedit/
 Does anyone know of a good code editor for Windows?
 Zorban 
 textpad? 
 Preferable lightweight and free.
 so textpad :)
 or notepad, don't remember the name of that crapy thing ;)
 I used Ultraedit32 100 years ago – I hear it is still quite good
 zond: would you say that it is stable enough for a production environment? and whats 
the communication overhead like
 http://www.textpad.com
 i use smultron, just for kicks
 evn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasure_codes and the Chord project 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_project) uses one for redundancy of data. and the new 
distributed persistence layer in archipelago is based on the same theory (basically, it is 
chord but made for LAN instead of WAN
 evn: no, it is probably not stable enough for production. some parts of it may be
 evn: but not all of it
 evn: the discovery is stable enough
 evn: and the threading utilities
 evn: and the database layer. BUT the database layer without the new persistency 
layer is of limited usefulness, and the database layer without the HyperactiveRecord layer 
is a bit hard to use (think pure sql connections versus active record)
 right
 I agree, that is a nice book.
 http://www.zenspider.com/Languages/Ruby/Cookbook/index.html
 surprised you still want a relational db
 gtg
 but listening
 Hmm. Not sure if that was the right link.
 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyckbk/
 That's more like it.
 RCB: Definitely price-worthy, but a bit too thick and low-level IMHO
 evn: i dont use a relational db :)
 evn: it was just a comparison :)
 this one is amusing :) http://poignantguide.net/ruby/
 Chunky bacon!
 That's a great one
 Can't say the poignant guide taught me much Ruby, but it's an entertaining read 
for sure.
 haha
 agreed
 noooo bat dead
 the best ruby guide for total nublets (esp if they are nublets to programming in 
general) is (afaik) http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
 A question for Windows users, related to the alt assignment: How does Windows 
handle file permissions?
 (Disclaimer: I know very little about Windows.)
 Are there read/write/execute flags? Users? Groups?
 how NTFS works : 
http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/library/8cc5891d-bf8e-4164-862d-dac5418c59481033.mspx?mfr=true
 Basically, we're trying to make our server work on all OSes.
 In other words, dumbing it down for Windows.
 This is all OT, of course.
 I'll stop talking about it when the lecture continues. :)
 Zorban: Thanks!
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* sebastian dör...
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 can anyone, tobias_ maybe, recommend good computing courses in the same vein as 
DYPL?
 I second that, especially regarding courses focusing on programming language 
design and implementation.
 tjena olle
 olle is lecturing now… he is not by his machine
 @ntk58: How do you mean "good computing courses"
 i don't really know :)
 i just like this one, and want to learn more
 Thanks, that's great. What do you wish to learn? 
 Algorithms, programming language theory, languages, … ? 
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 Regarding what he just said: http://ruby.istheshit.net/
 Christian Schulte has a course in programming language paradigms that seems 
promising. Christian is great. And there is some use of Erlang in the course. 
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 The course is called 2I1082 if memory serves me right.
 I'd really like to be better at seeing general solutions, so i guess algorithms 
would be one thing
 Have you taken 2I1081? 
 nope
 this is my first course at DSV
 Ah
 studying mediatechnology at valhallavägen
 2I1081 is an algorithms course. Beatrice is giving it. 
 Good to know
 so im not that good at "the heavy stuff"
 (This course is purposefully non-heavy)
 Maybe this is best taken off-line later? 
 yea sure
 I mean, this is a lot of QA-stuff just to triangulate what you want
 Come see me after the lecture
 i will
 gr8
 (Reboot} URL here: http://www.reboot.dk/listpublish-63-en.html
 My profile on reboot:http://www.reboot.dk/person-1431-en.html if you're going, 
drop me a line! :)
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 To people listening to Olle's lecture: are lectures such as these interesting 
for you? Should we keep them on the course? 
 yes!
 tobias_: YES!
 Real life perspective is really important, IMO.
 this is really a good point
 (Cakeforge) http://cakeforge.org/
 Crap, my battery's almost flat.
 Anyone writing this down?
 If so, can you please post the list to the wiki?
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 erlang lecture would be really nice!
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 Hi all. Olle is done. He was great. Now he is busy being interviewed about 
dynamic vs. static typing. 
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 Now done with the talk!
 brb
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 hej nån som vill vara med mig, ja har inga vänner denna freda =)
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* sebastian_ *snyft* *snyft*
 vänta bara, kommer bli en virginia tech! =P
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